[Dog Down]

Lol…wow…I guess you can't reason with someone who can't see reason…

I'll let Nathan know you like his book the next time I chat with him….he's actually helped me with a couple of my rifles.  Great guy and his bedding and stabilizing kits are awesome,… its probably the only thing we may ever agree on from the looks of it.  Please don't ask me for email or phone record proof to prove I talk to this guy… 😉 

Anyhow, I hate continuing to piss on a good thread so you go about thinking and doing what you feel is right and good luck to you, no sarcasm intended.  However you go about accurizing your rifles I wish you nothing but success.  I'll stick to what as worked for me and my friends and we can agree to disagree on how we get a Tikka to shoot better.

Gas and paint thinner works great for cleaning cosmoline off a rifle!  🙂

[Dog Down]

You even make less sense now then before…

I'm done trying to convince you, but will leave you with these answers to your new points…

#1 – The ribs are planned and not accidental, but its for barrel and stock stability….not a planned accuracy aid.  They promote and advertise any improvement or accuracy enhancement they make in their stocks.
Don't forget the added wall at the sling swivel for stability.  They don't promote an accuracy rib in their stocks….it actually contradicts their advertising for “free floated barrels”…

#2 – Correct, same placement position of the rib in every stock..but it only has to do with this section of the mold being the same for almost the complete line of rifles.

#3 – 2 of my T3's did not have this wall perfectly centric to the barrel and only touched slightly on 1 side…did not even make contact with the bottom of the barrel.  You could side paper underneath and around 1 side of the barrel channel only.  The other 3 guns varied slightly as well…
A planned accuracy shim / pressure point to be effective and repeatable needs to be perfectly centric to the barrel, if not it will throw flyers as the barrel heats up…I'm not going to debate that point with you, do some research.

#4 – You mentioned accuracy pressure points in the bench rest community…show me a fixed accuracy pressure point from a benchrest rifle that is a plastic wall unevenly supporting the barrel in a stock that flexes…you won't find it.

#5 – Correct, that the rib is in the same consistent spot, but that is the only thing consistent.  As soon as you apply uneven stress on the stock it flexes and it changes the pressure exerted on the barrel causing a different shot every time…repeating shots is more luck and chance then expertise at that moment.

#6 – Sako & Tikka do promote free floated barrel accuracy, they even go as far as indicating it in their manuals and promotional material.  Check you manual under “maintenance of your firearm section”

Listen man, I've been around rifles for quite awhile and do a lot of handloading for some really accurate rifles… to get the best out a rifle you need to be able to have a repeatable constant…Has much as you want to believe it, the Tikka synthetic stock is not the best it can be directly from the factory.  Like you and other guys have mentioned, we all tinker…recoil butt pads, stainless recoil lugs and so on…I don't need to show you evidence to prove to you that 5 of my rifles all shoot better with a free floated barrels, whether it be a synthetic stock or not…the proof is in my own experiences and the targets I shoot before and after tinkering.
If you don't have the same experiences working with these guns don't give people incorrect information.
Guys free floating the barrels on these rifles have had great results on this forum and others…

[Dog Down]

I have a big case of gun envy!  Great looking rifle, and awesome group!
I need to build a 260 or 6.5…

What height was the Talley rings? Looks like the fit is perfect for scope height.

[Dog Down]

Good stuff, this will be a great looking rifle that i'm sure will impress!

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Jason,

Will there be any issues shipping one of these to Canada if i place an order?

Also, did you have a chance to take pic's of a lite barrel in the stock?

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I don't personally own a 270 that I reload for but i know guys are using H4831sc with good results.
I use the same powder in my 300wsm with very good results.  Excellent temp stable powder…

Here are a couple of loads I pulled off a reloading site I visit…using H4831,..H4831sc is the same powder only “short cut”…

[Dog Down]

Sent you a PM…we'll get a range day setup in March for sure.
Lets chat off forum and figure out a plan.

[Dog Down]

No offence, but I think this might be more a shooter / reloading problem then gun accuracy problems…
If you review all your previous post on this topic you have already reduced your group size considerably to almost an MOA shooter so maybe its not the gun…you had to be doing some things wrong before for it to be shooting as poorly as it did, and now you changed some things up and accuracy is getting better…so maybe there are a few things that still need to be improved.

Have you free floated the barrel….it needs to be done if you are reloading and shooting off any bench bag or bi-pod.

As mentioned before, I have a lot of experience with these guns and would do a range day with you to help find the issue…I'm in Toronto.

[Dog Down]

The plastic “rib” that is in your stock – was designed to be there for a reason. I grin a bit – when I see the term “free floated” thrown about as THE marker of whether or not a rifle will be accurate.
I tend to believe that the placement of that rib is not an accident, nor was it to save any money for Tikka. Rather it is positioned to dampen barrel harmonics – and aid in accuracy for this particular stock/barrel combination.
I want to draw your attention to the common practice of bench shooters – that will often try placing a weighted rubber “doughnut” on the barrel of their bench gun, and move it forward and backward every few rounds – trying to find the sweet spot for harmonics dampening. It is a similar approach to what some manufacturers have done in their stocks, because they have researched the issue and tested, prior to us ever seeing the rifle. In the case of the T3 it is an “up-pressure” point, rather than a weighted doughnut.

However, you will continue to read of folks dremeling out the rib and “improving” the accuracy……So, one has to wonder – did they put real effort into sighting in, working up loads, and keeping genuine records BEFORE modifying the stock? Only really good method and some science will tell you *IF* your rifle is – or is not accurate enough – prior to attacking the stock! ;D

My take? Proceed with caution, and do not pre-conclude that your stock needs to have that rib removed – until you shoot it. Lock it into a lead sled at a range. Zero your scope correctly – then try several loads and brands of ammo. See what it likes. Then decide if you feel it is worth the risk to remove that rib.

And…please keep records, and photos  and share them with us. Real time and research effort is greatly appreciated, and creates a much better data base than anecdotal recommendation. 😉 ;D

You sir are TOTALLY 100% incorrect in your assumption…sorry to sound like a know it all but here's the reason why you don't make sense…and the truth about the forward pinch points…

Here's why your thought or argument is incorrect…
#1- There is no documented information “from” Sako or Tikka on placing an harmonic upward pressure point in their stocks…call them. If accuracy pressure points are engineered into a stock, they would be very deliberate and obvious. If Tikka did design pressure points in their stocks they would use it as a selling point and provide information in the manual about it.
#2- The pinch point is in the same position on all stocks, how do you put a harmonic upward pressure point in the same spot and expect it to perform on “all” calibers and barrel lengths…
#3- The pinch point doesn't actually apply any pressure on the barrel, it actually only touches the barrel slightly on the lower sides…it adversely effects accuracy by apply inconsistent pressure on the barrel when you flex the stock, especially when using bi-pods or bags in various shooting positions…
#4- The pinch point we all talk about is nothing like a pressure point a benchrest shooter would use, in design or application…
#5- Accuracy is achieved when everything is kept constant…nothing about the barrel channel pinch point is consistent or constant.
#6- Sako & Tikka actually recommend free floated barrels, same for wood and synthetic stocks.  They even promote it whenever possible.  Read and check out information on various models.  Does not matter if its a Lite or Varmint barrel…

Here's the truth about the forward pinch point…

Not to long ago Sako/Tikka realized there was a flaw in the synthetic stock design being made by the company contracted to produce them…Swivel studs where being broken off in various conditions, especially cold temps.  A lot of documented cases and warranty issues…To cure this problem walls were added in the barrel channel to help reduce synthetic stock flex.  The biggest issue they addressed was the sling swivel area…walls where added on each side of the stud to stabilize the stud and prevent it from torquing and breaking the stock.  When adding these walls they cut the barrel contour as close as possible in a very close tolerance.  This created another problem…the synthetic stocks flexed more than the wood or laminated stocks, so this added stability can and will come in contact with the barrel under flex.
***See pictures attached of a broken stock swivel, compared to the swivel area in the new stock designs***

Which lead to numerous guys like myself cutting or relieving this area to completely free float the barrel whenever a paper test failed for clearance in the barrel channel.  Especially when you plan on bench shooting off bags or using a bi-pod.

Ask Jason if he's putting a pinch / pressure point in any of the stocks he builds and retails to the public….or if any of the GRS or chassis systems have pinch points for lite or heavy barrels…???

I have 5 T3's, and all shoot better with the pinch points removed, range test proven. Especially for consecutive multiple shot shooting! Pinch points at the swivel stud or in the barrel channel is a design flaw emphasized by stock flex.

[Dog Down]

If cutting a varmint profile speeds up your production time then I would call them and tell them to change it…

Here are a couple bolt handle choices…these are only a few offered, all depends on your budget.  And if you want to buy locally or order the part…

Lucky 13 tactical handle – https://www.cleaverfirearms.com/Products.aspx?Search=tikka

Rosedale – http://www.webshop.roedale.de/gx2/product_info.php?language=en&info=p400_tikka-t3-tactical-kammerstaengel.html&=

Lumley – http://www.lumleyarms.com/#!blank/cpzh

Atlas – http://www.coretacsolutions.com/products_AW_TIKKA_UPPER_AL.htm

[Dog Down]

Welcome, you picked a good rifle.

Here's the best advice I can give to you on your questions…

#1 – Both actions are the same…Only different being a slight milling relief cut so the CTR mags seat and lock in…slightly differently then the regular T3 plastic mag.  But it has no effect on cutting / milling the profile for the action.  Only the inletting for the bottom metal needing special cut / profile. “See attached pic for reference comparing the 2 actions….T3 Stainless / CTR”.

#2 – Do not waste your time with Manners cutting a special profile for the CTR barrel, just have them cut the regular Tikka “Varmint” profile…there is only a slight difference between the two, the CTR is slightly smaller in diameter at the muzzle but right at the the action area, and to about 4-6 inches in front of the of the action they are the same. 

#3 – The KRG lug is a hardened stainless lug, you will have no issues with this lug…good as any other steel lug offered by other suppliers.

#4 – The plastic end on the CTR bolt handle is a press / snap on extender…I have not personally taken any off but I'm sure its pretty easy.  “See attached picture for reference”…
FYI – if you replace the bolt handle….from my personal experience a “straight” bolt handle versus a swept or curved handle works best for cycling the bolt.  Thats just my personal opinion.  I have 5 T3 rifles and have straight bolt handles on 2 of them and they do cycle better then the curved handles. 

[Dog Down]

Hey Eric,

Thought you might enjoy these videos by our buddy Nathan Foster….goes with the topic of copper solids versus other bullets and kill shots they produce.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNYq-QeHEuw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wr7zpwPZ6Q

[Dog Down]

You can't expect a Barnes bullet to have the same terminal ballistics as an Accubond or Berger bullet.
Each of these 3 react totally different at various velocities and each are designed completely different from one another.

Check out this article on ballistic test…good read.
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammo/ballistics-test-best-300-win-mag-loads-market/

I like Accubonds but its hard to beat a TTSX bullet at high velocity for close range shots. 
Berger bullets are grenades, they are designed to dump as much energy as it can by shattering into pieces resulting in the largest wound channels at the highest velocities, great for stopping an animal at close range but a lot of downsides to this bullet.

Here's how i would rate them:

#1 – Accubonds – “Good” @ short range performance (can grenade on bone) ,… “Excellent” @ mid & long range for accuracy, with good expansion and penetration.

#2 – Barnes TSX or TTSX or LRX – “Excellent” @ short range performance with “Excellent” terminal ballistics,… “Good” @ mid range, “Fair” @ Long range, good accuracy but lacks expansion at lower velocities resulting in pass throughs with little terminal damage.

#3 – Berger VLD or HyBrids – “Fair” @ short range performance, will grenade at high velocities,major meat spoilage…”Good” @ mid range with accuracy and expansion,…”Bad” @ long range penetration.

[Dog Down]

Hey dog, is the twist rate (1:11 i believe) working for the 208 amax?  One of the reasons i have not bought the tikka in 300 wm or the wsm is the 1:11 twist (thinking that it would not properly stabilize the 208 amax).

You will have no issues stabilizing a 208 Amax with the Tikka T3 – 11 twist barrel…you can also shoot 210 bergers and 210 HPBT Hornadys…just need to play around with it.

The 11 twist is not the best choice for throwing heavy pills over 200grs but you can get it to work…

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Ericbc7, I don't mind the abbreviation at all.  Thanks for the insight. I do have a bead on a used stainless lite at my local cabelas.  I tend to stay away from used rifles. However, It is as you described. Looks like it was shot just enough for the previous owner to decide they really only wanted a 308.  Dog down, was the LOP on the B&C longer or shorter than the standard tikka stock?  Also, what loads have you had the most success with? I am looking at heavier pills with higher BCs.  This info is much appreciated.

LOP was shorter on the B&C compared to Tikka factory stock with Limbsaver…

I'm currently shooting the 190gr LR Accubond and the 208gr Amax out to 1000yrds with no issues…190's fit in the mag but have to load the 208's as single feed for best accuracy.  I could push the COAL longer in the 190's but I use it as a hunting round so not interested in single feeding these. Feel confident shooting a Deer sized target at anything under 800yrds if its standing still and wind is not an issue.  180 Accubonds shoot awesome as well for a hunting round.  I only use H4831sc for my 300wsm reloading.