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Boyd’s stock on T3 Lite?
Just got a new T3 Lite in 308. The barrel is not really free floated — my dollar bill got stuck halfway up the channel and ripped while extracting it. As others have noted, the black synth stock is very practical, but doesn't exactly inspire pride of ownership.
The Tikkaperformance wood stocks advertised on this site are not available there. So I was thinking of a Boyd's stock, but wondering how that might work. I suppose Tikka's famous accuracy is in part due to the fine marriage between stock and action/barrel.
Does anyone have experience with Boyd's stock? Any effect on accuracy?
And BTW, this forum has the worst verification/CAPTCHA image I've ever seen — the string is totally illegible! Yes, I can listen to it, and then I have to answer 2 more questions. I've never encountered this on any other site. Maybe the CIA uses this, but it's overkill here.
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21 Replies
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I would say that you should stay away from Boyd's. I've spent hours fixing inlets for customers. There just isn't any quality there.
You're the first person to complain about the Captcha. You must have had a fluke one.
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I would say that you should stay away from Boyd's. I've spent hours fixing inlets for customers. There just isn't any quality there.
You're the first person to complain about the Captcha. You must have had a fluke one.
Thanks for the quick reply, Jason. I'm a web designer by trade, so maybe a little fussy here. Sometimes that captcha string is legible, sometimes not.
The wood stocks advertised in the vid here — flour d'lis checkering and all — nowhere to be found on the Tikkaperformance site.Only super tactical/competition stocks. Is that defunct?
Are there any alternatives to Boyd's?
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Ah. You should check out our Facebook page. There's been quite a bit of discussion over there about the status of our stocks.
I'm upgrading our shop and am taking the opportunity to set up some new machines for our wood working.
In order to do this, I had to take the existing machines offline.
They'll be back ;D
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Boyds stocks are good value for money, but they need to be bedded to get the accuracy out of them. I bedded one on my .25-06 Lite and it goes well. They are heavier, esp when bedded than the factory stock.
Factory stocks are actually very good and are supposed to have barrel contact like yours has. If you take the stock off you will see two small lugs half way down the barrel channel, which is likely where your dollar bill is sticking. If the rifle shoots well, don't worry about it. If not, you could try removing the lugs and run a round dowel wrapped in sandpaper up and down the channel to ensure good clearance then see how it shoots. Be warned, it could make accuracy worse.
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The plastic “rib” that is in your stock – was designed to be there for a reason. I grin a bit – when I see the term “free floated” thrown about as THE marker of whether or not a rifle will be accurate.
I tend to believe that the placement of that rib is not an accident, nor was it to save any money for Tikka. Rather it is positioned to dampen barrel harmonics – and aid in accuracy for this particular stock/barrel combination.
I want to draw your attention to the common practice of bench shooters – that will often try placing a weighted rubber “doughnut” on the barrel of their bench gun, and move it forward and backward every few rounds – trying to find the sweet spot for harmonics dampening. It is a similar approach to what some manufacturers have done in their stocks, because they have researched the issue and tested, prior to us ever seeing the rifle. In the case of the T3 it is an “up-pressure” point, rather than a weighted doughnut.However, you will continue to read of folks dremeling out the rib and “improving” the accuracy……So, one has to wonder – did they put real effort into sighting in, working up loads, and keeping genuine records BEFORE modifying the stock? Only really good method and some science will tell you *IF* your rifle is – or is not accurate enough – prior to attacking the stock! ;D
My take? Proceed with caution, and do not pre-conclude that your stock needs to have that rib removed – until you shoot it. Lock it into a lead sled at a range. Zero your scope correctly – then try several loads and brands of ammo. See what it likes. Then decide if you feel it is worth the risk to remove that rib.
And…please keep records, and photos and share them with us. Real time and research effort is greatly appreciated, and creates a much better data base than anecdotal recommendation. 😉 ;D
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Teesquare nailed it!
You can't have a light, spindly barrel and not have harmonic issues. We've tested them with being and almost all T3s shoot best bed to that rib.
Those Fins know their stuff!
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Thanks for the educated replies, guys. i guess this answers my question: for the sake of aesthetics/appearance, I really shouldn't replace the humdrum synthetic stock — unless it's a close match with those harmonic lugs/tabs in the fore end.
Jason, I scanned the Facebook page but could find no message about your stocks, except this beautiful blond stock (attached).
If and when your sporter stocks are back in production, please let me know.
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I had so much trouble with the captcha on my Samsung tablet I gave up trying to post. Used my desktop.
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The plastic “rib” that is in your stock – was designed to be there for a reason. I grin a bit – when I see the term “free floated” thrown about as THE marker of whether or not a rifle will be accurate.
I tend to believe that the placement of that rib is not an accident, nor was it to save any money for Tikka. Rather it is positioned to dampen barrel harmonics – and aid in accuracy for this particular stock/barrel combination.
I want to draw your attention to the common practice of bench shooters – that will often try placing a weighted rubber “doughnut” on the barrel of their bench gun, and move it forward and backward every few rounds – trying to find the sweet spot for harmonics dampening. It is a similar approach to what some manufacturers have done in their stocks, because they have researched the issue and tested, prior to us ever seeing the rifle. In the case of the T3 it is an “up-pressure” point, rather than a weighted doughnut.However, you will continue to read of folks dremeling out the rib and “improving” the accuracy……So, one has to wonder – did they put real effort into sighting in, working up loads, and keeping genuine records BEFORE modifying the stock? Only really good method and some science will tell you *IF* your rifle is – or is not accurate enough – prior to attacking the stock! ;D
My take? Proceed with caution, and do not pre-conclude that your stock needs to have that rib removed – until you shoot it. Lock it into a lead sled at a range. Zero your scope correctly – then try several loads and brands of ammo. See what it likes. Then decide if you feel it is worth the risk to remove that rib.
And…please keep records, and photos and share them with us. Real time and research effort is greatly appreciated, and creates a much better data base than anecdotal recommendation. 😉 ;D
You sir are TOTALLY 100% incorrect in your assumption…sorry to sound like a know it all but here's the reason why you don't make sense…and the truth about the forward pinch points…
Here's why your thought or argument is incorrect…
#1- There is no documented information “from” Sako or Tikka on placing an harmonic upward pressure point in their stocks…call them. If accuracy pressure points are engineered into a stock, they would be very deliberate and obvious. If Tikka did design pressure points in their stocks they would use it as a selling point and provide information in the manual about it.
#2- The pinch point is in the same position on all stocks, how do you put a harmonic upward pressure point in the same spot and expect it to perform on “all” calibers and barrel lengths…
#3- The pinch point doesn't actually apply any pressure on the barrel, it actually only touches the barrel slightly on the lower sides…it adversely effects accuracy by apply inconsistent pressure on the barrel when you flex the stock, especially when using bi-pods or bags in various shooting positions…
#4- The pinch point we all talk about is nothing like a pressure point a benchrest shooter would use, in design or application…
#5- Accuracy is achieved when everything is kept constant…nothing about the barrel channel pinch point is consistent or constant.
#6- Sako & Tikka actually recommend free floated barrels, same for wood and synthetic stocks. They even promote it whenever possible. Read and check out information on various models. Does not matter if its a Lite or Varmint barrel…Here's the truth about the forward pinch point…
Not to long ago Sako/Tikka realized there was a flaw in the synthetic stock design being made by the company contracted to produce them…Swivel studs where being broken off in various conditions, especially cold temps. A lot of documented cases and warranty issues…To cure this problem walls were added in the barrel channel to help reduce synthetic stock flex. The biggest issue they addressed was the sling swivel area…walls where added on each side of the stud to stabilize the stud and prevent it from torquing and breaking the stock. When adding these walls they cut the barrel contour as close as possible in a very close tolerance. This created another problem…the synthetic stocks flexed more than the wood or laminated stocks, so this added stability can and will come in contact with the barrel under flex.
***See pictures attached of a broken stock swivel, compared to the swivel area in the new stock designs***Which lead to numerous guys like myself cutting or relieving this area to completely free float the barrel whenever a paper test failed for clearance in the barrel channel. Especially when you plan on bench shooting off bags or using a bi-pod.
Ask Jason if he's putting a pinch / pressure point in any of the stocks he builds and retails to the public….or if any of the GRS or chassis systems have pinch points for lite or heavy barrels…???
I have 5 T3's, and all shoot better with the pinch points removed, range test proven. Especially for consecutive multiple shot shooting! Pinch points at the swivel stud or in the barrel channel is a design flaw emphasized by stock flex.
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I agree with Jason and Dog ,
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The plastic “rib” that is in your stock – was designed to be there for a reason. I grin a bit – when I see the term “free floated” thrown about as THE marker of whether or not a rifle will be accurate.
I tend to believe that the placement of that rib is not an accident, nor was it to save any money for Tikka. Rather it is positioned to dampen barrel harmonics – and aid in accuracy for this particular stock/barrel combination.
I want to draw your attention to the common practice of bench shooters – that will often try placing a weighted rubber “doughnut” on the barrel of their bench gun, and move it forward and backward every few rounds – trying to find the sweet spot for harmonics dampening. It is a similar approach to what some manufacturers have done in their stocks, because they have researched the issue and tested, prior to us ever seeing the rifle. In the case of the T3 it is an “up-pressure” point, rather than a weighted doughnut.However, you will continue to read of folks dremeling out the rib and “improving” the accuracy……So, one has to wonder – did they put real effort into sighting in, working up loads, and keeping genuine records BEFORE modifying the stock? Only really good method and some science will tell you *IF* your rifle is – or is not accurate enough – prior to attacking the stock! ;D
My take? Proceed with caution, and do not pre-conclude that your stock needs to have that rib removed – until you shoot it. Lock it into a lead sled at a range. Zero your scope correctly – then try several loads and brands of ammo. See what it likes. Then decide if you feel it is worth the risk to remove that rib.
And…please keep records, and photos and share them with us. Real time and research effort is greatly appreciated, and creates a much better data base than anecdotal recommendation. 😉 ;D
You sir are TOTALLY 100% incorrect in your assumption…sorry to sound like a know it all but here's the reason why you don't make sense…and the truth about the forward pinch points…
So…what you are saying -is that you, an experienced novice have the engineering research and data – which clearly shows that the manufacturer, and their suppliers….do not know how to produce a rifle which guarantees under 1 MOA – from the box? And I “don't make sense”???Where have you been hiding? 😮 ::) ;D I mean….you could solve all the ills of the world it seems…. just kidding – calm down – and lets figure this out. Not with emotion, or ego…just the numbers, o.k.?Here's why your thought or argument is incorrect…
#1- There is no documented information “from” Sako or Tikka on placing an harmonic upward pressure point in their stocks…call them. If accuracy pressure points are engineered into a stock, they would be very deliberate and obvious. If Tikka did design pressure points in their stocks they would use it as a selling point and provide information in the manual about it. Yet, there exists a single rib – in all socks. Accidental? I cannot believe that – can you…really? Help by explaining that to me in some detail please.
#2- The pinch point is in the same position on all stocks, how do you put a harmonic upward pressure point in the same spot and expect it to perform on “all” calibers and barrel lengths…What I expect is not in question. What I buy, and what the manufacturer claims…that is the question. So, all of these Tikka plastic stocks have this rib – and I can assume it is in the same location – which is near the receiver. This would typically be a location that would dampen oscillation/harmonics – prior to their developing their maximum impact – which should vary based on the load.
#3- The pinch point doesn't actually apply any pressure on the barrel, it actually only touches the barrel slightly on the lower sides…it adversely effects accuracy by apply inconsistent pressure on the barrel when you flex the stock, especially when using bi-pods or bags in various shooting positions…Interesting…Yet inconclusive – do you have any data that shows that only gravity causes contact – and that there is not purposeful up force when the action screws are tightened correctly? I ask – because – I can pull a dollar thru that “pinch point” before tightening the action screws…But it is impossible to do so after tightening them. That means that the pressure in that specific location is increased beyond that of gravity – doesn't it?
#4- The pinch point we all talk about is nothing like a pressure point a benchrest shooter would use, in design or application…I still see no relevance to what “you all” talk about – if it is different from the rib I am specifically addressing and the seeming un-controllable urge to “be smarter” than the manufacturer. I think it is your money and certainly your opportunity to offer real data. as I recommended in my prior post. Anecdotal discussions never yield real data. Manufacturers of firearms use REAL DATA to construct the best arms they can – at a level of accuracy that yields a positive impact on their reputation. And there is this tiny little thing called “product liability”, and lawyers, etc… ;D SO….are you calling the “pinch point” – the rib which is designed to contact the barrel ( if not provide some up force)?
#5- Accuracy is achieved when everything is kept constant…nothing about the barrel channel pinch point is consistent or constant. The rib's location is consistent. That would signal that the location of it may not be as critical as we think it should be.
#6- Sako & Tikka actually recommend free floated barrels, same for wood and synthetic stocks. They even promote it whenever possible. Read and check out information on various models. Does not matter if its a Lite or Varmint barrel… I will look into that. I have read that the wood stocks are free floated. So – why do they continue to ship these plastic stocks, with an engineering flaw – if they are recommending otherwise?Here's the truth about the forward pinch point…
Not to long ago Sako/Tikka realized there was a flaw in the synthetic stock design being made by the company contracted to produce them…Swivel studs where being broken off in various conditions, especially cold temps. A lot of documented cases and warranty issues…To cure this problem walls were added in the barrel channel to help reduce synthetic stock flex. The biggest issue they addressed was the sling swivel area…walls where added on each side of the stud to stabilize the stud and prevent it from torquing and breaking the stock. When adding these walls they cut the barrel contour as close as possible in a very close tolerance. This created another problem…the synthetic stocks flexed more than the wood or laminated stocks, so this added stability can and will come in contact with the barrel under flex.
***See pictures attached of a broken stock swivel, compared to the swivel area in the new stock designs***
Interesting, and possibly related…but nota conclusive that the broken studs meant eh rib needs to be cut….
Which lead to numerous guys like myself cutting or relieving this area to completely free float the barrel whenever a paper test failed for clearance in the barrel channel. Especially when you plan on bench shooting off bags or using a bi-pod.Ask Jason if he's putting a pinch / pressure point in any of the stocks he builds and retails to the public….or if any of the GRS or chassis systems have pinch points for lite or heavy barrels…???Everyone does have their “secret”…I have friends that restocked his Ruger, and found there was a necessary pressure point that they removed in the process. The gun never shot well until he re-created that in the new stock's barrel channel.
I have 5 T3's, and all shoot better with the pinch points removed, range test proven. Especially for consecutive multiple shot shooting! Pinch points at the swivel stud or in the barrel channel is a design flaw emphasized by stock flex.
Again, I would be keenly interested in seeing before and after pictures of bona fide tests. I am not disagreeing with your attempt to improve the accuracy. I just like to see facts before I cut into an intentionally designed support/contact or up force point. I think what you have is not beyond reason…but it would be far more convincing if you had actual evidence of the rib removal being the “solution” – when what usually happens with most “improvements – is that we make 3, 4 – or 10…then want to point to “that one thing”. Example: most will remove the stocks, install pillar bedding – or full bedding, and will add a limbsaver – maybe even a brake….then when asked about accuracy improvements – they may say “yeah….when I cut out that rib….my groups tightened up.
Again…Method + evidence = data that is usable and repeatable. I would appreciate any of that that can be contributed. I certainly hold in high regard experience. But – experience can be an individual thing. When making a structural impact on a stock….I like to see numbers first.
And – I am not completely closed minded about this. I have ordered a Manners stock for comfort in using the Tikka…ANd – fully expect to have to experiment in order to re-accurize it. Of course my milage may vary from yours or anyone else…..But I will take pictures, and post the data – hopefully you can help me get it as accurate as possible.
Thanks!
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You even make less sense now then before…
I'm done trying to convince you, but will leave you with these answers to your new points…
#1 – The ribs are planned and not accidental, but its for barrel and stock stability….not a planned accuracy aid. They promote and advertise any improvement or accuracy enhancement they make in their stocks.
Don't forget the added wall at the sling swivel for stability. They don't promote an accuracy rib in their stocks….it actually contradicts their advertising for “free floated barrels”…#2 – Correct, same placement position of the rib in every stock..but it only has to do with this section of the mold being the same for almost the complete line of rifles.
#3 – 2 of my T3's did not have this wall perfectly centric to the barrel and only touched slightly on 1 side…did not even make contact with the bottom of the barrel. You could side paper underneath and around 1 side of the barrel channel only. The other 3 guns varied slightly as well…
A planned accuracy shim / pressure point to be effective and repeatable needs to be perfectly centric to the barrel, if not it will throw flyers as the barrel heats up…I'm not going to debate that point with you, do some research.#4 – You mentioned accuracy pressure points in the bench rest community…show me a fixed accuracy pressure point from a benchrest rifle that is a plastic wall unevenly supporting the barrel in a stock that flexes…you won't find it.
#5 – Correct, that the rib is in the same consistent spot, but that is the only thing consistent. As soon as you apply uneven stress on the stock it flexes and it changes the pressure exerted on the barrel causing a different shot every time…repeating shots is more luck and chance then expertise at that moment.
#6 – Sako & Tikka do promote free floated barrel accuracy, they even go as far as indicating it in their manuals and promotional material. Check you manual under “maintenance of your firearm section”
Listen man, I've been around rifles for quite awhile and do a lot of handloading for some really accurate rifles… to get the best out a rifle you need to be able to have a repeatable constant…Has much as you want to believe it, the Tikka synthetic stock is not the best it can be directly from the factory. Like you and other guys have mentioned, we all tinker…recoil butt pads, stainless recoil lugs and so on…I don't need to show you evidence to prove to you that 5 of my rifles all shoot better with a free floated barrels, whether it be a synthetic stock or not…the proof is in my own experiences and the targets I shoot before and after tinkering.
If you don't have the same experiences working with these guns don't give people incorrect information.
Guys free floating the barrels on these rifles have had great results on this forum and others… -
I would like to give yo credibility, but frankly – you come off like a teenager. I offer an objective approach to testing a firearm before hacking at it…and and your youthful impudence has clearly subjugated your logic skills.
First, you tell me that I make no sense. Then you finish by reminding me that you have “been around rifles awhile”….And- further, you fail to understand the process for verifiable improvement ( in any industry – or job for that matter – including military marksmanship…) is process based, data verified. Does that hurt your feelings, or insult you that someone would ask you to show them what you may have learned/discovered or found?
You see, I believe that a public forum such as this only really works well – when we can communicate with an open mind. That has unfortunately been thrown out of the ring by your insulting tone twice.So – I will leave you with your ego as intact as possible… 😉 Because frankly – I am looking for folks that can show what works via measured results. Not a pissing match. You go ahead and get your shoes wet, I will wait outside….
But – you may want to read. Try Nathan Foster's Long Range Hunting Rifles. He is just one of the name thrown around here a bit, isn't he?
I will even give you some page numbers: Start on page 93 – below the picture thru page 95.
HINT: He clearly explains that you should never free float these specific rifles in these synthetic stocks without proper bedding. And – further – he clearly states the rib is a “pressure point”. So, go re-load more of your magical unicorn ammo, of which you need not prove anything…( as long as you believe – you don't have to prove that unicorns are real after all!) – and take up you argumentative – and childish attitude with Nathan. I think he has “been around rifles for a while”.
Me….only since 1968. And…yeah, lots of them loaded with cosmoline. That may be unfamiliar to you. Then again…you probably everything else too. -
Lol…wow…I guess you can't reason with someone who can't see reason…
I'll let Nathan know you like his book the next time I chat with him….he's actually helped me with a couple of my rifles. Great guy and his bedding and stabilizing kits are awesome,… its probably the only thing we may ever agree on from the looks of it. Please don't ask me for email or phone record proof to prove I talk to this guy… 😉
Anyhow, I hate continuing to piss on a good thread so you go about thinking and doing what you feel is right and good luck to you, no sarcasm intended. However you go about accurizing your rifles I wish you nothing but success. I'll stick to what as worked for me and my friends and we can agree to disagree on how we get a Tikka to shoot better.
Gas and paint thinner works great for cleaning cosmoline off a rifle! 🙂
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Lol…wow…I guess you can't reason with someone who can't see reason… I see very well. REASON – is something that actual fact, and supportive DATA accompany an OPINION – which is along with bullshit – what you seem filled with.
I came to the forum to learn the ins and outs about Tikka. Not rifles not marksmanship, not smarmy know it all exchanges with anyone. I appreciate your change in tone.I'll let Nathan know you like his book the next time I chat with him….he's actually helped me with a couple of my rifles. Great guy and his bedding and stabilizing kits are awesome,… its probably the only thing we may ever agree on from the looks of it. Please don't ask me for email or phone record proof to prove I talk to this guy… 😉 I will ask you for nothing. EVER. Clear on that?
Anyhow, I hate continuing to piss on a good thread so you go about thinking and doing what you feel is right and good luck to you, no sarcasm intended. However you go about accurizing your rifles I wish you nothing but success. I'll stick to what as worked for me and my friends and we can agree to disagree on how we get a Tikka to shoot better.
Gas and paint thinner works great for cleaning cosmoline off a rifle! 🙂 Looks like you read up a bit, junior. Sarcasm intended. Your turn to receive.
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