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Only mentioned the interior neck cleaning because some guys use a bore brush or steel wool on the inside of the neck to make everything nice and clean but it effects your neck tension… you will get a big variance on ES…wasn't sure of you were over cleaning your brass.
One of the best things I did to help improve my reloading was buying a trimmer that uses the case shoulder as its reference / index point to trim. I use the Little Crow Gunworks trimmer for all my 223 & 308 loading and its a dream to use. You won't believe how great they are until you use one and trim 100 cases in 10 minutes or less and not break a sweat and they are all perfect! It was a noticeable improved in accuracy with this addition to my reloading bench.http://www.littlecrowgunworks.com/wft.html
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I was hoping IMR 4166 was going to yield a little better velocity at the higher charges, especially with the moly treatment…Varget is getting harder to find these days…Its barely in stock anywhere, and sells out quick. I was thinking of switching powders but rethinking the entire approach after comparing pressure and velocities between the 2…
If your #17 load holds same MOA at 200 then I'd say you found a keeper. Are you cleaning the inside of the necks when reloading? I only ask because I've seen a couple guys do this and it was bad for lowering ES.
FYI…
I've just went though a couple bad range sessions with some 75gr Amax…nothing grouped well and I was like “what the hell is gong on”…then I started inspecting some of the rounds I had not shot..and saw alot of variance in the tips…some of the tips were actually off centre…I ended up tossing about 50 projectiles in the trash due to this issue. I've since switched to 80.5gr Bergers. Pretty much same BC as the 75 Amax and way more consistent in weight and length. Something else for you to try, I'm liking them more than the amax's so far. -
Reloads will be:
190gr LR Accubonds / H4831sc / Winchester Brass
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Looks really good Eric.
My load came together around 2900fps…There was a difference in the groups from 2800 – 2900fps when tested at extended ranges like 200 & 300yrds.
Everything looks really promising with what you have posted. NICE WORK!
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Did I catch your cartridge as being 300 WSM?
correct…
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Where in Northern Ontario?
http://www.fishthefinest.com/index.php
Great fishing at this location as well!
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Update on post #2 – Bedding the stock…
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The only ammo I had issues with was a box of federal GM 168gr match…not sure what was going on but I think it was more a sizing / shoulder issue with the brass versus length. I have not had any other issues with factory ammo, including Hornady 168….I actually load a lot of 168amax for my gun and it shoots very well.
Best factory ammo I've shot is Nosler 155gr Match…shot 3 shot 100yrd groups you could cover with a dime.
Very consistent from box to box. Give it a try if you haven't already. -
Same thing happened with my CTR308 gun first when I got it. Under recoil it would dislodge the mag with hot loads…
There is a problem with the design of the release, the angled part of the release pin that goes into the
Mag wall is cut flat so its at an angle for the quick release…great for dumping/changing a mag but bad if the release spring does not hold everything firm under recoil. The spring is not strong enough with the current design and seating position. Its a flaw only surfacing on the 308 guns from what I have heard or seen so far.The fix:…get a flat screw driver and insert into the mag slot as per the picture. Apply downward pressure, just enough to raise the top lip on the opening, at the same time this indents the button edge of the slot. This creates a better seating position for the release pin to sit a little further into the mag slot and it puts more pressure on the release when the mag is inserted into the gun. You can actually feel the difference after the fix…no more sloppy movement of the mag when inserted into the gun.
Try it…it will cure the problem.
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Thats not a bad price of they are hard to get in your area…I paid $1100.00 Canadian for mine so thats about the same price…
They do shoot very well in 8 twist!
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Hi you're next job is to ream the primer pockets to make them all the same , it does make a difference
Exactly what he said…it will make a different.
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I'm very interested to see how this plays out…thats awesome that you can make everything.
Get to it… -
From what I have found researching the 2…the only measurable difference between the 2 is the cut of the granule which gives you slight change in burn rate and pressure, so you have to adjust loads for each…numerous temp sensitivity test between the 2 over the years have shown that H4350 has only slightly edged out IMR4350, and IMR being the faster of the 2…but velocites are the same within a .5 – 1gr of each other.
Sorta like H4831 & H4831sc, same powder but I still have to work up a load for each powder…Even though the recipe is the same they do shoot differently in my guns. Both shoot within a grain or so of each other,…Only the cut of the granule being different.
It would be interesting to see if both H4350 & IMR4350 powders were cut to the same specs and tested head to head.
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Eric is correct…in fact form what I have read IMR4350 & H4350 of today are the exact same powders since Hodgdon bought them years ago. They standardized the 4350 powder line years back but H as the extreme line coating for Temp sensitivity…Same MSDS sheet for both if you look them up.
They have done this with others powders as well, like Win 760 and H414…
Seems to be a common thing they do with some of the main stream choices.
The only variances should be between manufactured lots. -
Eric You misunderstood…
The example was not based on load development, it was a based on “1 load” with 2 – 50rd boxes, 1 box reloaded with low SD, versus 1 box loaded with high SD…but “ES” being the same.
Data measured from each full 50rd box.ES in this situation above would have told you nothing…SD however would have told you why 1 box grouped better than the other shooting 5 shot groups at the range.
In theory you can't have one without the other..But most “modern” shooters in the long range world today whether it be hunting or bench shooting are concerned more about repeatability / uniformity so they can predict what a load will do…ES used to be the main focus for reloading, now both ES and SD go hand in hand. SD is excellent for helping you select the correct elevation turret for a scope or to make drop charts, there will always be a variable in reloading…I myself have had really good success shooting small groups and hitting long range targets by focusing on SD…my guns / scope combos have done exactly what it should when I dial my turret.
Here's how “Brian Litz” (Ballistician @ AppliedBallistics) weighs in on the topic…copied from another forum:
“Standard Deviation is a very useful number for quantifying velocity uniformity. Using ES, you're only using 2 of the shots in the group to quantify the variability of velocities. However, SD uses all the information available.
ES is a good number to get the 'gist' of a loads potential. It represents something easy to understand, and should not be discarded. However, SD has it's place in shooting as well. It's not as obvious what it is, physically; and it's harder to calculate, but it allows you to make some pretty useful predictions.”
No one is wrong on the ES versus SD topic but a good reloader should focus on both if they want to have repeatable success at the range and improve their entire routine / technique. ES is the easiest thing to calulate if you are new to reloading but its doesn't stop there.
