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Vortex or Zeiss
I'm new to Tikka's, just picked up my first in .308 in May. So far it's a great gun. I'd like to take my first leap into “good” optics and after doing a good amount of research I have narrowed my choices down to 2 or 3. I really like the Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14×44 Rapid Z 800, and the Vortex Viper PST 4-16×50 FFP. I also like the Vortex Viper HS series, but aside from the FFP and illuminated reticle, I don't really know the difference between the HS and PST. Keep in mind I don't have any field experience with a good scope, only the little bit of knowledge I've accumulated from researching online. I'd like to be able to use whatever scope I get for rountine hunting of deer sized animals out to 600 yards, and maybe a little longer for something smaller. Most people I talk to talk up Zeiss for the name recognition and most haven't heard of the Vortex lines. I'd like to know the quality differences, if any, and which would be better for a hunting application that may extend to the 600 yard mark on occasion and why.
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15 Replies
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Either scope you choose of these two are great scopes.
A little over a year ago I spent some time working at a gun store part-time to earn some extra hobby money. During that time I was able to look through every piece of glass in the store.
Prior to this, I was a dogmatic Leupold worshiper. After seeing what Vortex had to offer (I had never heard of them prior to this experience either) I hesitantly purchased one to test in the field. Within 3 months, my VX3s were replaced with Vortex Vipers.
Don't get me wrong. Zeiss is excellent glass and I purchased one of their range finders, but Vortex scopes had more features for the same or less money.
I have a Vortex PST 6-24×50 FFP that is absolutely exceptional. The FFP takes a little getting used to, but it is extremely nice in the field. When shooting from a bench, I prefer SFP.
The HS series uses the same glass as the PST except comes in a more hunter friendly package. The reticle is SFP and is a standard crosshair or a BDC.
Depending on the caliber you plan on shooting, there may not be much advantage to an FFP scope at 600 yards. Game animals take up quite a bit of the picture at higher magnifications making it easy to place the correct dot of the BDC on the honey pot.
Back to what I said earlier, both optics lines are exceptional and you will be happy with either for hunting at 600 yards.
My .02
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I agree with Jason both are great choices. I think first and foremost you need to decide how you want to compensate for bullet drop. If you want it to be right there in your reticle and not have to mess with turrets or drop charts then the Zeiss is by far the best choice. They have the most advanced BDC reticle available and I own a couple. they are really nice. However if you want to turn turrets then Vortex has zeiss beat. Vortex seems to be doing some really great stuff. I Do not own a vortex but I have my eye on a couple. To me the biggest draw back is the range of adjustment and the click value. Some of the clicks are as much as 1/2 which to me is too much for the kind of shooting I like to do. But they are not all like that. I hear they have great repeatability and you can have a turret engraved so you just range and dial. So pick the method you think you would prefer. Either way you go I highly doubt you regret.
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I really appreciate both responses. Being new to optics, I really don't have an opinion on turning turrets or just a holdover. I'm open to learning either method. Same goes for the MOA vs MRAD option on the Vortex. My biggest decision with the Vortex line is whether or not the PST line is worth it for what I want to do, or if the HS line is all I need. I'm at a point I don't mind paying for “extra” quality if it's something I'll use or potentially need. It appears both the HS and PST offer the custom turret for easy elevation adjustments and at that point, I don't really know what the benefit of FFP would be if you have a custom turret on your HS series which is SFP. Is the custom turret on the HS series only good for one magnification, or would you still have to adjust your elevation at different magnifications since it's SFP? Also, how often would an illuminated reticle come in handy while hunting? Is this usually a night only option for shooting hogs type of thing or is there a genuine benefit to an illuminated reticle for normal use? This is going on my Tikka T3 Lite Stainless in .308 to be my primary hunting weapon for anything from whitetail to hogs to exotics. I really want a scope for regular deer sized animal hunting inside and up to 600 yards, and maybe the occasional poke at a varmint at longer ranges just for fun. One other piece of info, I'll more than likely be using a range finder to range targets, not using estimations based on the MOA or MRAD to distance things. The MOA or MRAD would be used for bullet drop/holdover only. It will primarily be used in the field, and will probably only see bench time for sighting in, and practice. Thanks again guys for helping out a newbie. At some point I'm sure I'll fully go to the Tikka dark side and start customizing, but that topic's for another day.
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I love the way you are looking at this. You're going into an expensive purchase without someone's preconceived notion of what you should do.
These are great questions and most people want these answers but do not know how to ask. An optics article is in this site's future!
Turning turrets is great if you have the time to do so because it is the most accurate way to calibrate the scope for drop. The nice thing about turret adjustments is that they are consistent at any magnification.
All of the dot reticles (mil-dot, BDC, EBR-MOA or MRAD) are designed to calculate bullet drop in some fashion for faster shooting.
My opinion is that you need both in a hunting situation.
MOA and MRAD is personal preference. My preference is MOA since most ballistics software use minute of angle (MOA) instead of milli-radian (MRAD or Mil-Dot). Since I shoot both in the field and on the bench, MOA is more intuitive to me.
Second Focal Plane (SFP) and First Focal Plane (FFP) is again personal preference to what type of shooting you do. When hunting, I prefer a FFP because my hold overs do not change with magnification. The reticle reads true at any magnification.
When shooting competition, I prefer a SFP because the etching does not become larger as the scope increases magnification. For paper, this can mean the difference between seeing the x-ring or not seeing the x-ring at longer distances.
The only time an illuminated reticle is advantageous is if you are shooting in the dark or when you cannot discern your substentions against the background. Many states prohibit game hunting with an illuminated reticle. Check your jurisdiction.
Hope this helps!
Please ask any question you like. That is what these forums are for!
Thank you for your support!
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I think I may have settled on the Vortex Viper PST, just because it has a few more “options” that I would like to try out. Now I just need to find one in stock. My next question is, I also have on order an EGW HD 0 MOA base, and .85″ HD rings. On their website they say the .85″ rings are good for scopes up to 50mm, which this Vortex Viper would be right at. Do you think I need the next size up in rings on the Tikka with the base, or are the .85″ rings good enough on clearance between the scope and barrel?
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Do you want an FFP or SFP PST? I can have an SFP in a couple weeks. If you want the FFP, it'll probably be longer. Probably 4-6 weeks.
Those rings should work. I use .83″ ones with a 20 moa base with plenty of clearance.
I just received my EGW shipment today and I have the standard base in 0 moa and 20 moa. The HD base came in 20 moa but I am going to use it for a review. If it won't break under my 270 wsm with the 6-24 PST on it, it can withstand anything!
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I'm looking for the FFP. There's a place through Amazon called OpticsPlanet.com that seems to do a lot of business on there and appears to have 4 in stock for the same price as everywhere else with free shipping.
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Well, OpticsPlanet had too many crappy reviews for me to be comfortable. Also, people said they'd say something was in stock when it really wasn't. I'll keep looking around for the scope. I appreciate your offer Jason, but I have a whitetail hunt August 24th and I'd really like to have the new rig set up by then if possible.
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I have had a lot of Zeiss scopes over the years. You cant go wrong with one, they track well and are very clear for the price. Optics are like women and cars, everyone has their own opinions, just have to them out or take test ride. 🙂
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I'm looking to top off my new Tikka T3 Varmint .223 with some glass and the new Vortex Viper PST 6-24 x50 looks very nice. This rifle will be used for mostly paper punching and groundhogs from 100-500 yards. Which model would be recommended SFP or FFP with mil turrets or MOA turrets? Also should I mount this to a 20 MOA picatinny rail or 0 MOA? Thanks in advance.
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Here's mine with the exact set up you are referring to:
Here's a close up of the scope:
[img width=1365 height=1024]https://tikkashooters.com/photos/jasonsphotos/PST/PST%201.JPG[/img]
[img width=768 height=1024]https://tikkashooters.com/photos/jasonsphotos/PST/PST%202.JPG[/img]
[img width=1365 height=1024]https://tikkashooters.com/photos/jasonsphotos/PST/PST%204.JPG[/img]
I used an EGW 20 moa base that is available through Tikkashooters.com and Vortex Tactical Rings. I'm not a big fan of the rings because of the metal the screws are made of. I'll probably replace them with a set from EGW shortly.
The scope on here is an ffp, but for punching paper I wish I had the sfp. I have one on order through Vortex that should be here any day.
MOA or MRAD is personal preference. Personally I prefer MOA since MRAD is older technology left over from the Mil-Dot era. MOA just seems to make more sense to me.
Again, just personal preference.
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Well, OpticsPlanet had too many crappy reviews for me to be comfortable. Also, people said they'd say something was in stock when it really wasn't. I'll keep looking around for the scope. I appreciate your offer Jason, but I have a whitetail hunt August 24th and I'd really like to have the new rig set up by then if possible.
This just happened to me to be honest! I purchased a EGW HD 20moa base from their ebay store. 2 days went by and I receive a email stating that the item wasn't in stock but should be back in stock in 5-10 or if I'd like to substitute I could take the 0moa version immediately. Well their version of immediate and mine are two different things because it took 3 emails and a phone call to get my order switched to the 0moa. I just hope it shows up tomorrow like it's supposed to!
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Jason that setup looks great. What height rings are you using? I'm thinking about getting the Seekins 30mm medium, what do you think, to high, go lower?
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I went with the Vortex low tactical mounts. They work well but I will most likely replacement them with mediums to shoot prone more comfortably.
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I was ready to go with a Rapid Z,but then I looked through a Swarovski. Game over went with a Swarovski with the BRH reticle.
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