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New Tikka T3 in .223, inaccurate :(
I just bought a new Tikka T3 in 223 and mounted a Vortex 4-12×40 scope to it. I replaced the scope ring bolts that attach the factory rings to receiver as the original screws stripped when torquing them. Brought the gun to the range today for its first shooting. Shooting from a stable bench at 100 yards. Myself and two other people as well could not get the shots to group at all. I tried three different types of 223 ammo, one being some higher dollar stuff, with no luck. Really disappointed. After about 50 rounds or so I lowered my head and put the Tikka back in the case. Pulled out some other guns and had no trouble with these. My friends and I shoot every weekend from a bench and enjoy seeing how well we can make a gun perform. We aren't new to shooting and I am sure its not us or the wind (which was practically nonexistent). I promptly ordered a set of Talley rings hoping that might be the cause. I also removed the stock for the first time when I got home. After removing the two bolts, I had a little trouble getting the stock to come off (I thought there had to be more bolts in there somewhere). Is this common for the stock to be kinda hard to remove? Anyways, any advice that can be given to get this gun up to par would be appreciated.
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47 Replies
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Which variation of the T3 did you purchase ? What specifically were the 3 types of ammo that you purchased and tried shooting ? When you reinstalled the action into the stock did you rechesk to see if the barrel was still floated and not contacting the inside of the stock ? I might be able to help with the answers to these questions .
10 Spot
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Thanks for your help……I purchased the Tikka T3 lite, blued barrel in 223 caliber, with a 1:10″ twist. The ammo I shot was Hornady Superformance 55 grain GMX, American Eagle 55 grain FMJ and Winchester 62 grain FMJ. When I shot the gun yesterday for the first time, I had not removed the stock yet, so it was as it was when I purchased it. I slid a dollar in there to check it before I shot the gun and it would slide more than half way toward the receiver and stops a little before the part that tapers up, somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 of the total barrel/stock interface.
The groupings (if you want to call it that) I would estimate about 5 MOA at a 100 yard distance no matter what ammo used. I know the Tikkas are tack drivers and hope to get this solved.
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I have the T3 Lite stainless but it has the now obsolete 1 in 8 twist and I wouldnt expect my loads to perform quite the same in your rifle but 5.0 moa I agree is totally unreasonable . My stock the first couple of times I removed it was indeed a bit tight but by barrel floated farther towards the action than yours appears to do . Here is the best trick to align you action within the stock on all rifles including the Tikkas . take your dollar ( or 5 , 10 , 20 ) and fold it in half lengthwise . place your action back into the stock but do not install the action retainer screw yet . Now slowly raise the muzzle of the rifle to allow you to insert the folded ( doubled ) bill under it and then lower the muzzle to allow it to settle into the stock . Now slowly work the bill down toward the action until it wants to stop under moderate pressure . Install the action retainer screw until it is just finger tight . Lightly bump the underside of the stock just forward of the magazine a few times with your hand or a rubber mallet all the while with the rifle in horizontal and upright position . Again check the action screw for finger tightness . That being done turn the rifle into the verticle position and lightly bump the butstock on the floor while holding it by the stock only with no fingers contacting the action . This being done check to see if the bill will still move freely from side to side . If it will move then slowly while the bill is still inserted begin to tighten the action screw checking the bill movement every turn or sow of the screw . As the screw tightens if the bill begins to hang up slightly move the bill toward the muzzle and tighten the screw some more alternating back and forth between tightening the screw and moving the bill . When the screw is fully tightened remove the bill , unfold it and recheck how far the single bill layer will move when slid from the muzzle end toward the action . It should go down close to within 6 inches of the forward edge of the magazine . If not and you feel some resistance or a sticky spot use a piece of chalk to mark the stock where the resistance occured and get on with the removal of the stock and start sanding ( or send the thing back for warranty work ) . This is where I would start as well with your upgraded rings . Let us know how this progresses .
10 Spot
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Thanks for the procedure. I will do that before the next time I shoot. My barrel length extends around 21.25″ total from the receiver. The length of barrel that has stock beside it is 9.75″. Of that 9.75″, a dollar bill will slide down about 6″ of it. Does this sound about right? I don't have it apart right now, but I remember seeing a “rib” in the stock that looked like it was there to support the barrel. Could this be what I'm hitting with the bill? If so, should I be able to float past that with a dollar bill?
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That sounds good on the clearance on the stock . the trick with the folded bill tends to center the barrel as best is possible for maximum clearance when firing . It takes ever so little contact to influance the barrel harmonics . with the 1 in 10 twist the bullets 55grs or under should perform the best . One of the best all round bullets in that class based on many shooting forum feedbacks and one I have had great success with as well is the Sierra 52 gr. HP match . They run between 18 to 20 bucks per hundred and seem to stay fairly available to we reloaders but am not sure if they are commercially loaded in factory ammo .
10 Spot
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Thanks for the procedure. I will do that before the next time I shoot. My barrel length extends around 21.25″ total from the receiver. The length of barrel that has stock beside it is 9.75″. Of that 9.75″, a dollar bill will slide down about 6″ of it. Does this sound about right? I don't have it apart right now, but I remember seeing a “rib” in the stock that looked like it was there to support the barrel. Could this be what I'm hitting with the bill? If so, should I be able to float past that with a dollar bill?
Those “ribs” were put there to support the barrel on the synthetic stocks. Many of us have removed them to get the barrel to free float up to the lug and have improved the accuracy of the rifle by doing so.
Right now I think your issue may be your rings if you are using the stock ones.
Did you break in your barrel on your first trip or did you just go shoot?
When you cleaned your rifle did you notice if there was a build up of copper in the barrel?
When you remove the action from the stock and then replace it, make sure you get the lug lined up correctly. It sits in the stock and fits into a notch on the bottom of the barrel. Put your action screws in, snug them up but not tight, take the rifle and tap the butt on the ground a few times to set the lug/action then tighten the front action screw first then the rear.
Your rifle should shoot 1 MOA and better.
Good luck and keep us posted on how it goes.
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I did not “break-in” my barrel. I cleaned it before I shot it the first time. I cleaned it again after shooting it as well. I didn't see anything looking like copper during the cleaning afterwards, however I wasn't looking for it either. My experience with rifles end with the .22 LR (I have a CZ 452), so copper is a new thing for me to look for. What should it look like on the patch (coppery in color I would guess)? I didn't run a brush, just a lubed/cleaning patch and then around 3 more dry patches which came out clean with the last one. I understand what you are saying about the lug, you want the barrel to sit up against the face of the lug that it touches when tapping the butt of the stock on the ground while the stock is lightly loosened. Just for information, I shot the gun for the first time without disassembling the stock, and then disassembled it after I had shot it and came home.
New Talley rings are on the way and I will install them this week. I also have a scope on my CZ I can swap out if that doesn't do the trick. What do you recommend for “breaking-in” the barrel. Do you think this is causing trouble by not doing that?
Oh yeah, one more thing. The two bolts that hold on the stock are those special torq bolts, I think a T25 if I remember correctly. Are those more susceptible to stripping out? Are people changing those out to allen head types? If so, what is recommended for a change out? What is a good value to torque the bolts to, 40 in-lbs?
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35-40 in/lbs should be plenty for the action bolts. I set mine to 35.
You have already shot a lot of rounds through your rifle so break in is moot at this point. No, you didn't hurt it any.
Get a copper removing solvent like Bore-Tech, or Sweet's or any of the foam copper removers. Don't use a brass brush when using these type solvents, as you will get false copper reading from the brush and the solvents will eat the brush up, use one with nylon bristles. Tikka bores are pretty good, after break in, copper is easily removed as it doesn't build up. Since your rifle is new there will probably be more copper then a seasoned barrel. Copper attracts copper so it's best to remove it before it builds up too much but don't go crazy. When using a copper removing solvent, your patches will be blue or blue green from the copper in the barrel. If you shine a light in at the muzzle you will see copper “stripes” in the “grooves” after your first copper solvent patch.
Tikka's manual says “patches only” FWIW but when my rifle was new it needed to be brushed to remove the copper, not so much in the 22-250 but the 30-06, coppered up badly.
I still have the torx head bolts in both of them, no need to change out if you use the proper tools.
Let us know how your rifle turns out, it should be a shooter, 1/2 MOA when you get things sorted out and find bullets that it likes. The 52 SMK mentioned would be a good start, you might want to try Federal Gold Medal Match 69 gr Sierra Match Kings in your 1/10, it's a great factory load and shoots well in every rifle I have ever tried it in with a 1/9 or 1/10 twist barrel.
Good luck!
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New Talley rings are now installed and man I like 'em. They are installed with the torq type of bolts. Luckily I have a set of these tools. Does anyone else have this type of rings? What is the recommended torque values for the bolts that hold the rings to the gun and the values for the bolts that hold the top of the ring to the bottom of the ring. Should I blue locktite these? The rings are aluminum.
Crossing my fingers that the original factory rings were the reason for my accuracy problem….
Don
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Got an email from Talley. On their particular rings I bought they recommend 18 in-lbs on the upper ring to lower ring, and they recommend 25 in-lbs on the bolts that hold the rings to the gun. The bolts hold the rings to the gun via the small threaded holes that a weaver rail can be attached on, not the dovetails. I'm going to get some of that purple locktite to use as well. I believe it it a little easier to remove than the blue but still holds 'em in there.
I'll report how the shooting goes with the new rings 🙂
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Took the Tikka for a shot today. I believe the new rings helped, however I am still not real happy with the accuracy. The Winchester 62 grain FMJ is a bust, and I will chalk that to cheap ammo. Probably 5 moa….. even at 50 yards. The Hornady ammo Superformance shoot much better but still having trouble getting a good group. I'm going to keep trying different ammo and hope I find something it likes that ain't crazy expensive. Oh, I noticed when I engaged the bolt with the Hornady ammo, it felt like I was squeezing the ammo in there real tight. Could it be a little too big for the Tikka? It is the 223, not 5.56. I swapped scopes with the same results so I feel confident it is the gun/ammo. Both myself and my buddy shot the gun. Rock solid bench, we had no trouble with the other guns we shot.
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Just a thought..check the torque of the action bolts. Should be somewhere from 35 to 40 foot lbs. Start at 35 and work up. That can make a big difference.
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check the torque of the action bolts. Should be somewhere from 35 to 40 foot lbs.
UMMMMMMM…that would be 35-40…..INCH POUNDS…
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Hi
Dose this torque setting count for all stock materials ,the reason I'm asking is mines aluminium and just wondering if I should start experimenting with different settings -
mines aluminium and just wondering if I should start experimenting with different settings
Your…[what]…is aluminum?
35 with Hunter wood stocks, 35-45 inch pounds with synthetic stocks. No reason to go any more.
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