Forums › Forums › General Discussion › Hunting the sub in "sub-MOA"
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296 Bullseyes
Hi I know lots of people with brake fitted from .223 (me) up to .308 both pepper pot and ones that needs to be timed all wouldn't shoot with them they help to stay on target after you've fired , noise isn't a problem has you should be wearing ear protection, where I shoot you can be shooting next to black powder , people with brakes , large calibers like .375 h&h all get on with shooting,you just have not to be a princess about it and get on with it
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1 Bullseye
Ok…IF your barrel is threaded in the 18 tpi whatever as on my Tikka .223, this won't work…
IF your going to have your barrel threaded in the much more common 'USA standard' 5/8″x 24…this place makes a brake that will address your concerns…
It has a removable sleeve…If your at a range and feel that you'll disturb others, leave it on, if not take it off and enjoy.
I have it on a .308, (although a Rem700) and it works great..and not that pricey as far as brakes go. I've got them on two rifles.
I try to get on the end of the firing line, and set my hard sided case up blocking the guy next to me, and that cuts the concussion effect down.
RECOIL isn't the problem…muzzle jump…taking you off the point of aim, not being able to SEE bullet impact is the problem…
Kinetech may make you a custom thread…I doubt it, but…
P.S.
I've just remembered, I didn't see anything about you “loading” the bipod, that helps with or without a brake…search around Utube, Snipershide, etc. for instructions on the concept, if your not familiar with the idea.
For benchrest, I have cut a 4' x 2' piece of thin black foam plastic stuff (used for tool drawer liner) and zip tied a dowel on the leading edge to give me something to 'load' the bipod against… (as well a being a somewhat comfy mat to rest your elbows and rear bag). I've also seen guys do the same with a piece of carpet… -
1 Bullseye
you just have not to be a princess about it and get on with it
Typical answer from the me,me,me generation. I “get on with it” at the range no problem. The problem is the lack of consideration with your neighbors. Why would anybody need a brake on a p—y .223? -
296 Bullseyes
you just have not to be a princess about it and get on with it
Typical answer from the me,me,me generation. I “get on with it” at the range no problem. The problem is the lack of consideration with your neighbors. Why would anybody need a brake on a p—y .223?It's not the me me generation it's the get on with every body generation , has for the comment about .223 get a life!, it's not a size (D##k) compation , it's people with this type of attitude, that people at my club avoid , as they seem a little backwards in there views / ability
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1 Bullseye
mikgarus, I'm not sure if you were trying to condescend to me (OP) or to airfoil??? BTW, my rifle is a .308. If I understand what you are stating, you seem to be among those who find the back blast associated with muzzle brakes annoying. Is that right? Keep in mind that we were discussing how to reduce “muzzle jump”. If you can share some constructive advice on reducing muzzle jump, please do share with this…um…princess.
Larkin, I missed the gist of your post, entirely. Can you clarify? Was it directed only to mikgarus or was it intended to add to the thread discussion?
airfoil, I sincerely appreciate your obvious intention to be helpful. I am seriously considering a bolt-on muzzle brake, since my barrel is not threaded, at all. I've read somewhere that removing the barrel on a Tikka T3 is difficult, even for the experienced gunsmith. But I'm not in any particular hurry about it, so I've got time to weigh advice and think about it a bit before dropping any more money into this rifle.
As for loading the bipod, I had literally no experience with a bipod prior to my last range visit. But I did learn about the concept of “loading the bipod” from Google University. I was shooting off a carpet covered wooden top bench, so there was a little bit of something for the bipod legs to grab hold of. I can't say with certainty that I loaded the bipod exactly the same way (or amount) each time, though–it's completely new to me.
I have a rear bag from midwayusa.com, but I don't find it particularly easy to use. It seems as though they filled it with especially large beads (or whatever). I may see if I can make a homemade squeeze bag and see if I like it better.
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1 Bullseye
Guess I'm a princess, too.
17 fireball- braked, because I can see the little gopher heads explode on high power with it- priceless!
223's- no brakes yet, but seriously thinking about throwing a Kaw Valley linear brake on an AR
260- no brake- don't shoot it much (rem 7)
7saum- big brake- I can see impact at 100. Sorry if it's too loud for ya… I shoot it a lot.
308- running 208's at 2640 fps- big brake- love it- can see hits at 100 yards- it's louder than the 7. 2500 rounds through it in the last 18 months.
300wsm- semi-radial brake (no ports on bottom to mitigate dust cloud)- it was no fun to shoot before the brake (broke a zeiss conquest & the factory stock)- running 208's at 2900-ish fps. I don't shoot it enough.And when my kids start shooting more I'll likely add brakes to more of the 223's to help them dial in their follow through. I'm into accuracy, not chest thumping. And I wear eye & ear pro.
Recovery time & spotting abilities are greatly enhanced by brakes, so I'm a big fan. -
296 Bullseyes
I'm not calling people who use a brake a princess, it's people who sulk about other people using them !!!! , you need to read my post not somebody's interpretation who as a chip on there shoulder , I use one on my .223 and so do a lot of people at my club , as for your AR 15 brake get a Lantac Dragon you won't be disappointed
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1 Bullseye
Brakes have their place. I would use them if i had my own private range. i suspect if public ranges made people using brakes sit in a special section, you'd see a lot less shooters using them. I was taught since childhood to be considerate of others, that's all.
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1 Bullseye
Thanks for the input, y'all. Yea, I've been next to folks with muzzle brakes on the public range, and it isn't particularly pleasant. And equally unfortunate is that the public range is, for now, my only convenient option for a place to shoot. That is why I've been wondering whether I could get the same reduction in muzzle jump by using an internally installed mercury recoil reducer in the butt stock. I'm sure the dynamics are different, regardless, since the operating principle behind the two devices are different. I would value anyone's advice who has had experience with both devices.
Robert_P–wow! 2500 rounds of .308 in 18 mos!!! I'll never be able to shoot that much if I live to be 85! That would also mean you spent ~$2500 in the same space of time. I expect if I were able to shoot that much, I'd probably start getting pretty good at this! I guess that is one of the perks of living in Montana!
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1 Bullseye
My gunsmith did not remove the barrel to cut threads…cost was $90. I took the actioned barrel out of the stock, took off the scope and reassembled when done. The Kiniteck brake (with the sleeve which makes all the flak about other shooters pain…moot) was around $60.
Reloading a .308 costs around .30 cents ea. To be a “shooter” you almost gotta reload… or be good friends with someone who does.
Keep at it.
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1 Bullseye
No doubt, Airfoil! I can't afford factory ammo (ok, I do chew through a couple cases of Tula every year in carbine classes), so I reload it all. Before I hired on full time here I was asst mgr at Sportsman's for awhile. I don't pay retail for reloading components. Realistically, I pay under 40 cents per round with most of my rifles.
I've run the 308 in a match or two, hunted with it, introduced quite a few new shooters to long range with it, volunteered it at a charity shoot- we burned more than 300 rounds that day!- did a whole pile of product testing for MT with it, and let friends borrow it. It was my go to gun for more than a year. I can put anyone on it (even a 12 year old girl!) & they'll make solid hits at any range out to 1k.
I know I've spent more than 2500 on shooting in that time- just not on ammo 😉
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1 Bullseye
Update on this thread. I've identified a new suspect in my quest for consistent, sub-MOA precision: the aluminum recoil lug. I've got to say that, while I've read that this can make a significant difference, I have been slow to believe it could really make a difference. I mean, aluminum is pretty permanent metal, right? But I've ordered a steel replacement from Mountain Tactical, and I'm going to give it a try!
Here is what caused me to take the plunge and order this, seemingly insignificant upgrade:
[img]http://tinyurl.com/nkdamty[/img]
Notice the trapezoidal crease around the top of the lug. I can't actually measure any noticeable difference in thickness of the lug with my calipers, but I can run my fingernail into that crease! I'm kinda at a loss to explain the mode of metal deformation that I'm seeing there. But it is clear that there is some unwanted plasticity, there. So this will be my next range test, provided I get a chance to head out to the range sometime soon.And then queued up right behind this upgrade, I have ordered a Witt Machine clamp-on muzzle brake:
http://wittmachine.co/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=180
I'm not particularly expecting an accuracy improvement from the muzzle brake, but I expect it might make shooting the rifle a bit more fun. I'm hoping to be able to maintain my sight picture after the shot breaks so that I can “call my shots”. But one thing at a time–I'll get to that in a future post. -
1 Bullseye
I didn't even shoot my rifle until last weekend that I've had in various stages of assembly since October with parts from Mountain Tactical. I can tell you, the tubberware sits on top of the safe real pretty with it's little aluminum part just being shiny.
I've known too many people that work with aluminum a lot that tell me it doesn't like being stressed. So I waited and just went right to the (and I think it's one of the first) marine grade stainless lugs when my stock arrived. Never have to worry about the lug again.
Now if the wind would quit blowing so bad, maybe I can get a decent zero dialed in. Difficult to realistically tell how you're grouping when your target is moving back and forth in the 30mph gusts.
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1 Bullseye
Aluminum work-hardens and is dented easily by the steel barrel/receiver. I'm curious why Tikka doesn't go with steel in the first place.
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1 Bullseye
This is a pic of my recoil lug. Brand new rifle, shot only by the factory (5 times supposedly). I was also quite suprised to see the trapezoidal dent in the top where it meets the action. Luckily, I have researched everything on this site ahead of time (thank you to all tikkashooters !!) and ordered the Lumley arms kit to install the new Ti lug. Can't wait to actually shoot it this weekend.
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