MemberFebruary 24, 2016 at 7:42 pm1 Bullseye
The plastic “rib” that is in your stock – was designed to be there for a reason. I grin a bit – when I see the term “free floated” thrown about as THE marker of whether or not a rifle will be accurate.
I tend to believe that the placement of that rib is not an accident, nor was it to save any money for Tikka. Rather it is positioned to dampen barrel harmonics – and aid in accuracy for this particular stock/barrel combination.
I want to draw your attention to the common practice of bench shooters – that will often try placing a weighted rubber “doughnut” on the barrel of their bench gun, and move it forward and backward every few rounds – trying to find the sweet spot for harmonics dampening. It is a similar approach to what some manufacturers have done in their stocks, because they have researched the issue and tested, prior to us ever seeing the rifle. In the case of the T3 it is an “up-pressure” point, rather than a weighted doughnut.
However, you will continue to read of folks dremeling out the rib and “improving” the accuracy……So, one has to wonder – did they put real effort into sighting in, working up loads, and keeping genuine records BEFORE modifying the stock? Only really good method and some science will tell you *IF* your rifle is – or is not accurate enough – prior to attacking the stock! ;D
My take? Proceed with caution, and do not pre-conclude that your stock needs to have that rib removed – until you shoot it. Lock it into a lead sled at a range. Zero your scope correctly – then try several loads and brands of ammo. See what it likes. Then decide if you feel it is worth the risk to remove that rib.
And…please keep records, and photos and share them with us. Real time and research effort is greatly appreciated, and creates a much better data base than anecdotal recommendation. 😉 ;D
You sir are TOTALLY 100% incorrect in your assumption…sorry to sound like a know it all but here's the reason why you don't make sense…and the truth about the forward pinch points…
So…what you are saying -is that you, an experienced novice have the engineering research and data – which clearly shows that the manufacturer, and their suppliers….do not know how to produce a rifle which guarantees under 1 MOA – from the box? And I “don't make sense”???Where have you been hiding? 😮 ::) ;D I mean….you could solve all the ills of the world it seems…. just kidding – calm down – and lets figure this out. Not with emotion, or ego…just the numbers, o.k.?
Here's why your thought or argument is incorrect…
#1- There is no documented information “from” Sako or Tikka on placing an harmonic upward pressure point in their stocks…call them. If accuracy pressure points are engineered into a stock, they would be very deliberate and obvious. If Tikka did design pressure points in their stocks they would use it as a selling point and provide information in the manual about it. Yet, there exists a single rib – in all socks. Accidental? I cannot believe that – can you…really? Help by explaining that to me in some detail please.
#2- The pinch point is in the same position on all stocks, how do you put a harmonic upward pressure point in the same spot and expect it to perform on “all” calibers and barrel lengths…What I expect is not in question. What I buy, and what the manufacturer claims…that is the question. So, all of these Tikka plastic stocks have this rib – and I can assume it is in the same location – which is near the receiver. This would typically be a location that would dampen oscillation/harmonics – prior to their developing their maximum impact – which should vary based on the load.
#3- The pinch point doesn't actually apply any pressure on the barrel, it actually only touches the barrel slightly on the lower sides…it adversely effects accuracy by apply inconsistent pressure on the barrel when you flex the stock, especially when using bi-pods or bags in various shooting positions…Interesting…Yet inconclusive – do you have any data that shows that only gravity causes contact – and that there is not purposeful up force when the action screws are tightened correctly? I ask – because – I can pull a dollar thru that “pinch point” before tightening the action screws…But it is impossible to do so after tightening them. That means that the pressure in that specific location is increased beyond that of gravity – doesn't it?
#4- The pinch point we all talk about is nothing like a pressure point a benchrest shooter would use, in design or application…I still see no relevance to what “you all” talk about – if it is different from the rib I am specifically addressing and the seeming un-controllable urge to “be smarter” than the manufacturer. I think it is your money and certainly your opportunity to offer real data. as I recommended in my prior post. Anecdotal discussions never yield real data. Manufacturers of firearms use REAL DATA to construct the best arms they can – at a level of accuracy that yields a positive impact on their reputation. And there is this tiny little thing called “product liability”, and lawyers, etc… ;D SO….are you calling the “pinch point” – the rib which is designed to contact the barrel ( if not provide some up force)?
#5- Accuracy is achieved when everything is kept constant…nothing about the barrel channel pinch point is consistent or constant. The rib's location is consistent. That would signal that the location of it may not be as critical as we think it should be.
#6- Sako & Tikka actually recommend free floated barrels, same for wood and synthetic stocks. They even promote it whenever possible. Read and check out information on various models. Does not matter if its a Lite or Varmint barrel… I will look into that. I have read that the wood stocks are free floated. So – why do they continue to ship these plastic stocks, with an engineering flaw – if they are recommending otherwise?
Here's the truth about the forward pinch point…
Not to long ago Sako/Tikka realized there was a flaw in the synthetic stock design being made by the company contracted to produce them…Swivel studs where being broken off in various conditions, especially cold temps. A lot of documented cases and warranty issues…To cure this problem walls were added in the barrel channel to help reduce synthetic stock flex. The biggest issue they addressed was the sling swivel area…walls where added on each side of the stud to stabilize the stud and prevent it from torquing and breaking the stock. When adding these walls they cut the barrel contour as close as possible in a very close tolerance. This created another problem…the synthetic stocks flexed more than the wood or laminated stocks, so this added stability can and will come in contact with the barrel under flex.
***See pictures attached of a broken stock swivel, compared to the swivel area in the new stock designs***
Interesting, and possibly related…but nota conclusive that the broken studs meant eh rib needs to be cut….
Which lead to numerous guys like myself cutting or relieving this area to completely free float the barrel whenever a paper test failed for clearance in the barrel channel. Especially when you plan on bench shooting off bags or using a bi-pod.
Ask Jason if he's putting a pinch / pressure point in any of the stocks he builds and retails to the public….or if any of the GRS or chassis systems have pinch points for lite or heavy barrels…???Everyone does have their “secret”…I have friends that restocked his Ruger, and found there was a necessary pressure point that they removed in the process. The gun never shot well until he re-created that in the new stock's barrel channel.
I have 5 T3's, and all shoot better with the pinch points removed, range test proven. Especially for consecutive multiple shot shooting! Pinch points at the swivel stud or in the barrel channel is a design flaw emphasized by stock flex.
Again, I would be keenly interested in seeing before and after pictures of bona fide tests. I am not disagreeing with your attempt to improve the accuracy. I just like to see facts before I cut into an intentionally designed support/contact or up force point. I think what you have is not beyond reason…but it would be far more convincing if you had actual evidence of the rib removal being the “solution” – when what usually happens with most “improvements – is that we make 3, 4 – or 10…then want to point to “that one thing”. Example: most will remove the stocks, install pillar bedding – or full bedding, and will add a limbsaver – maybe even a brake….then when asked about accuracy improvements – they may say “yeah….when I cut out that rib….my groups tightened up.
Again…Method + evidence = data that is usable and repeatable. I would appreciate any of that that can be contributed. I certainly hold in high regard experience. But – experience can be an individual thing. When making a structural impact on a stock….I like to see numbers first.
And – I am not completely closed minded about this. I have ordered a Manners stock for comfort in using the Tikka…ANd – fully expect to have to experiment in order to re-accurize it. Of course my milage may vary from yours or anyone else…..But I will take pictures, and post the data – hopefully you can help me get it as accurate as possible.